Category: Parent Talk
Hello, do you think that Spanking a Child is in any way Justifiable?
No, violence against a child is never justifiable. You're basically teaching that if they do something wrong they will be hurt. That is torture. Torture is bad.
As a child who was spanked and hit, all I really got out of it was that I was going to get hurt. At times I didn't understand why I got hit because there was no explanation. There are other ways to teach a child right from wrong. The more productive methods I learned from were when I had something taken away from me when I didn't accomplish what I was supposed to such as homework. Or when I cussed or said something mean to my brother, I would not be allowed to speak. Then I would be asked if I understood why I was punished, and if I didn't my mom or whoever it was would coach me to understand what the problem with my behavior was. Spanking is not a necessary punishment.
I believe that spanking a child is a form of abuse, and since there's power, age difference and authority from parents it becomes more so frustrating when one can't break away. As a child who was constantly hit, I feared my mother, and I was afraid of doing everything not because it was wrong, but because it would hurt if she hit me. I'm very glad I'm not with her anymore...
There's that view, but then there's wondering if in fact it did do the world of good as it was done in the early days and society wasn't so full of disrespect. I'm not saying that was a result of children getting smacked; it's simply a question that has got today's society talking.
I think calling it "violence" may be considered a bit far fetched.
I had a friend at school who's dad would hit her across the face/head with a belt; I'd be certainly more inclined to call that "bilence"; I was absolutely horrified upon hearing this.But this compared with a more minor smack on the bottom.
But is the lack of respect that kids seem to have today really a result of something that clear cut? I think not. Society changes over time, so many psychological and cultural factors shape the generations and how they interact with each other. It's definitely not as black and white as saying that spanking is violence that only breeds more violence, or that if only kids today got a few good whacks they would shape up. It simply doesn't fit into a neat little package like that.
right, but spanking only has a short-term effect on the child. There are other ways of punishment, such as time out and taking something away from them that they like but hitting/spanking is not by any means a form of disciplin
Let me point something out here. That whole thing about how the previous generations were so much more respectful of their parents and well behaved and no one ever did anything wrong and they always waited until marriage to have sex and never did drugs or drank or did any of that; in short the entire premiss of that post a couple above this one. Yeah, its totally bullshit. Children are disrespectful, have been since they lived in caves. They disobey their parents, they do drugs, they have sex. Want a perfect example, try figuring out when people of an older generation lost their virginity. Little clue, it was probably in their teens; just like it is today. You want to read some dirty books, read the diaries of the pilgrims, you'll learn about all the dirty things they did. This whole thing about how the past was so much more moral than we are today, and kids used to be sweet little angels, its made up.
I did not get spanked a lot, but I certainly remember the times I did.
The first time I got spanked, I called my mom a bitch. I heard that word being used a lot in school, and I actually thought it was something acceptable. Needless to say, I never once cussed at my parents after that.
Thinking back, I do not know if she could have handled it better than that, I am certainly not one to promote abuse, but that spanking was more than justified.
I know I should not bring in personal experience for why I think it should be okay, but that's my story.; however, if I had to choose whether to ban it or not, I definitely would. Some parents do not know the difference between a spanking, and just plain senseless violence, and eliminating the option, will also eliminate the confusion..
Honestly I used to be spanked when I was younger by my father, I learned quick let me tell you not to step out of line after that whipping. After that and my father married again it was sitting in the corner. That didn't do anything for me, I was still gonna do what I wanted because well, that just didn't scare me, two hours thinking alone. I was alone most of the time when I was really young so it didn't matter. The spanking in my opinion did more for my behavior then anything else.
As per the last post, That's an unhealthy viewpoint. But what do I know, right?
All I wanted to say is that I'll agree with the majority of you who posted--Spanking is a no-no where punishment is concerned.
Cody's right; kids have always been bad. and disrespect has always been a complaint of parents. It's just that, as time goes by, society considers different things as disrespectful. I have a one year old who is at the stage where he likes to push my buttons to see how much he can get away with. I've given him mini times out and I've taken toys away, and said no, and put him down for a nap if he's cranky. But I've never once entertained the idea of spanking him. And not just because he's still a baby.
I don't honestly know. I would not go that far and call it abuse, I don't believe it is, and too many things are abusing your kids today. I came from a very strict family and though I sometimes moan about it and hate my family for it, I thank them daily for being so good to me. I am strong in mind and spirit because of my parents. but, I am not sure I would do it, but I don't know if I would rule it out all together as bad. I am far to nice to do such things, I do more what my dad does and do a lot of lecturing, very stern talking and disappointment.
Abuse is also known as unjust and corrupt practice. So spanking, in my opinion is unjustefiable, for a child shouldn't be taught something is wrong by doing the wrong act of hitting him. How is it, that a child is spanked when at the same time, he/she is told "it's not right to hit; or, "if someone hits you, hit back?" I find that ironic
Okay, a spanking is not supposed to be a lesson in dealing with every day problems, just as time out is not a way to teach your kids how to avoid fights ..
Do you tell your child to tell anyone who pisses them off to stand in a corner for a couple of minutes? A spanking is just that, a moment in time to show your child what they did wrong. Even a tap on the wrist can be considered a spanking, and I assure you a child will cry just as much from that as any other form of punishment, simply because they know their mistake..
Right, but it all comes down to the reason why you punished the child the way you did. For instance, if you told the child to go and stand in a corner alone, after it is all said and done, you can tell them that this will be how you end up if you try to fight with people and start arguments all the time. You will end up with less friends and people won't want to be around you, and you'll become isolated unless you learn to control your anger. So, promoting the idea of teaching the child to walk away and keep to themselves until they calm down sounds like a much better idea than hitting them, at least in my opinion.
You don't teach a child anythingwith a slap or a spank. I dont' care how much anyone says a child gets out of a spank, there's no message to be transmitted via a spank, other than, "i'm bigger than you, i'm in charge, so I'll exercise my power over you and you better listen.".
Punishments should be teachable moments. they should promote a child to think. And why not? Thinking promotes brain development. Mindless punishments lead to mindless actions by the child in the future.
I'm in complete agreement with those who say spanking is never justifiable. it's abuse, and despite some sick people's opinions, children don't learn anything but that they're powerless in the minds of the grownups bullying and controlling them. I was one of them.
Well speaking from my point of view, I know what abuse is like. Let me tell you, I much rather have preferred spankings over that. Not saying I liked the spankings, but ehh. Either way, my father used to spank me only because I wouldn't listen. I was a daddy's girl so he always gave me warnings, but I asked for it. As for the corner stuff, I honestly feel like those things were unnecessary because I was punished for dumb reasons. My dad and biological mother took turns raising me until I was four. My dad and her never spanked unless I did something up against the rules. In my home, my family, the way my culture goes in my family's eyes a spanking is quite alright if its truly needed.
Also, when a parent tells a child "if you do it again, the next time it'll be even harder!., is not teaching anything but that to be afraid of the parent, not doing what's wrong! or "If you don't stop crying, I'll give you a reason to cry about!" is a way of saying "Be quiet!, I'm frustrated and I'll hit you because your crying frustrates me!" oh, how offle...
And when is it truely needed?
That's the thing though. Not doing something simply because you will get hurt if you do is not behaving yourself. Behaving yourself is not doing something because you don't want to do it. If the only reason you don't smack your sister is because your father will take his belt to you if you do, then you aren't behaving yourself. You're suppressing your urges. When the threat of being spanked is no longer there, the behavior returns.
Spanking teaches what not to do. It teaches that this behavior is unacceptible and will get you hurt. But that isn't the job of a parent, or at least it isn't the only job of a parent. You can't just say, "This behavior is bad", and leave it at that. You have to say, "This behavior is bad, here's why, and this is how you should have acted". You don't do that by a swat on the wrist or a belt across the backside.
I'll illustrate. Lets say there is a little kid named billy. Billy wants a cookie from the cookie jar which is sitting on the counter. He climbs up, lifts off the lid, and an alarm goes off. Apparently billy's mom sprung for one of those annoying cookie jars we all hated as kids. Billy gets caught and his mom gives him a smack on the behind for trying to steal a cookie.
Now, all this teaches Billy is that stealing cookies is bad. It does not replace the behavior with an acceptible one. Billy's mother didn't say, "Next time you should ask permission Billy", or perhaps, "You have to wait until after dinner for a cookie Billy." That is teaching a lesson. Spanking teaches nothing.
Now, I'm not a parent. I was raised by a father who spanked for the most minor of infractions. I never learned a thing. I can't even tell you what kinds of things I was spanked for because I don't remember. I can tell you to this day the exact circumstances under which I was punished in different ways. But like I said, I'm not a parent. Maybe a parent out there will back me up.
hmm, it seems I keep forgetting to mention this in my posts. I wouldn't spank my kids, and only for the reason because I cant stand the idea of me doing it to a child. But I get everyone's posts, I agree half way, but what I'm saying in my original posts I learned differently. I wasn't spanked for little thinks like beating on my neighbors or picking fights. It was like more of painting my walls, flooding the bathroom, trashing the kitchen. I mean seriously crazy stuff, I don't blame my father for spanking me, hell I was bad.
I understand your poing, yet, why would I teach my child he can be hurt if he's doing something just as unacceptable as I'm doing?
*point*
I'd make you clean up the bathroom with nothing but a washcloth, or clean up the kitchen by having to carry each piece of trash out to the garbage can on the curb. That would teach you not to do it again, and it would clean up the mess.
Not sure if I think that would have been a good punishment, though granted I was three and four around these accidents. I also went blind at four, so he jusst spanked me. My family are all ok with this punishment. The entire, my mother's and father's do it.
I echo Cody's last post. as has been said, and will continue to be, there are other ways, such as what Cody demonstrated, to teach children lessons. spanking is not, I repeat, not one of them. ever.
Cody, you just reiterated my last point. And I think you explained it pretty well. So I'm not going to repeat what was just said.
But to the last poster, I wouldnt' spank my kid for flooding the bathroom or for painting the walls, or even for trashing the kitchen. I'd talk to them. It seems you justify your being spanked and you keep justifying it, but the more you justify it, the less it's justifiable. I've had a baby for only 13 months now, but I've been around kids who have done all the things you've described. I have to tell you, most kids paint the walls at their homes. My little cousin did it, a bunch of other kids did it that I know of, it's common. But you don't need to get spanked for it. You should have had a talking to and you should have gotten your drawing and painting tools taken away, and been told why it's not ok to draw on your walls. You should have been supervised then, with the drawing tools until you could be trusted alone with them again. I'll bet spanking didnt' teach you much about why drawing on walls is bad. It just taught you that you better not get caught by the person who spanked you last. lol.
If it taught you so well, you wouldnt' have done all the stuff you said you did, over and over again.
By the way, the stuff you say is "crazy shit" is basically normal kid stuff. Kids flood bathrooms. Hell, most kids love playing in water. Some kids are just more adventurous than others.
I'd even venture to say that some kids do it because they're poorly supervised. these days, we're taught as parents that we need to constantly supervise our toddlers. We need to fill their days with activities and do fun things with them, educate them, not just sit back and watch, and yell and spank while they're left to their own devices. Kids get bored if they dont' have the proper attention payed to them. They're like dogs who are left out in the yard for too long by themselves. Certain dogs will dig up an entire yard just for the hell of it if they're left alone in the yard.
Some kids will flood the bathtroom just for the hell of it if mommy or daddy subscribe to a version of parenting, I call arm chair parenting. Where you sit your ass down in an armchair and let your kid go about an entire day, without any planns, just a bunch of toys and don't do this, dont' do that. and then maybe a spank or ten. Get it?
Now, I'm not saying that all kids who get spanked have lazy parents. But I am saying that they ave less constructive parents. Because a constructive parent will figure out another, less violent, more demonstrative way to get their point across. A parent who spanks lacks the creativity or the intellect, or the time to put into the effort of productive parenting.
Maybe this is very strongly put, and I dont' really want to insult anyone's mommies or daddies here; I'm sure thier decent enough peopel in some cases. But that's my oppinion on the matter. I knwo what it's like to be raised in a home where mom or dad works all the time, and then after work they sit down and try to relax; forget about going to a museum, or a park, or playing with toys with teh kids. I'd have killed to be able to play with my mom, but she never really had time for that. I'd have loved for her to read me a book from time to time as a kid, but that was out of the question too. My mom is a good person. She's a hard working, honest individual. But she had me young, and she was certainly not equipped with the tools and the knowhow to parent a kid at the time.
This is why I wont' spank my kid, I'll take him out to see the world instead. I may work hard, I may want to make time to relax and socialize with other adults too, but I'll make sure to teach my kid something, instead of aimlessly punishing him because he's being bad.
I'm sorry, I'd like to point out something, and I'd like to put it in all caps and put a big exclamation point after it. YOU WERE FUCKING FOUR! Do I even have to explain why hitting a four-year-old child for any reason is wrong? I don't care if you caused world war II and built a nuclear bomb which you then sold to iranian terrorists while blowing a hobo, you don't hit a four-year-old for anything. Ever!
My cousin spanks her kid, and the kid tries to hit her back and she's only about two years old. It doesn't work as people intend for it to.
while I certainly don't think kids should be spankd I don't see anything wrong with a slap on the wrist in certain situations. For example, if the kid is trying to touch a hot stove or stick his hands in electrical outlets it's a lot safer alternative to tell them know and that it's bad and they shouldn't do that and give them a slap on the wrist than the alternative of getting burned or shocked. You can also use things like outlet covers to cover them as well but believe me when kids start pulling them out of walls or unplugging things it starts to get unsafe. Here's a thought though, how do you teach your kid they've done something wrong like stain a carpet for example, and you know you can't fix it, such as a stained carpet which therefore won't give you back a security deposit, sometimes it just seems like the situations might warrant this because time out and punishing just aren't enough. Also, to reitterate on someone's point, they're absolutely right, we are taught that people respected their elders and all that in days passed, but just in music alone do you know how many songs in the 50's 60's and 70's were written about kids doing bad things, or teens sneaking out late at night to have sex? Trust me, the disrespect was still there back then, just in different ways.
but hitting will not remove the stain from the carpet, it'll be a release of anger and frustration from the parent's part, still no excuse whatsoever
I have to agree with the last post. Hitting a kid because he or she stained a carpet is like someone banging their head against the wall over a missed opportunity of some sort. Unproductive and destructive. You can always get a new carpet, even if you can't realistically do so at the moment. it's a material thing. it's not hurt; It may be dammaged and it may cost you some money to fix or replace it, but how's that an excuse to compensate by hurting your kid instead?
Your carpet wont' remember the stain, but your kid will remember you smacked him for what might later seem like a minor infraction. That might be more dammaging than the stain, you never know.
Also, about slapping a kid on the rist or something to prevent them from getting hurt...Don't you all think it's more effective to explain to a kid why he or she shouldn't touch the stove, for instance?
My kid is at that age where he likes to explore in the worst possible ways. he goes to the stove, to the microwave, to the tv, anywhere he's not suppose to, given the chance. We have our place baby-proof, but you can't keep a kid in a cage, so to speak, so he gets around. So now, what would I accomplish by slapping his hand away from a hot stove that I cant' accomplish by gently taking him away from it and explaining to him that he'll get hurt if he keeps touching it. If I slap his hand away from the stove and tell him, dont' touch or you'll get hurt, he's probably thinking, screw you, mom, you just hurt me anyway by slapping me on the arm. How much more can that thing hurt me?
They honestly don't have a clue.
So I keep repeating this sequence each time, calmly, in hopes that he learns not to touch the stove. And you knwo what? It cant' be any less productive than teaching him in a more confrontational, more urgent manner.
My theory is, most kids are so highly strung and nuts all the time because their parents either lack the patience or the skill to interact with them calmly. I get that sometimes frustration takes the best of us as parents, but if your kid only recognizes your tone of voice as confrontational and threatening, and your actions similar to that, then how is he ever going to know any different?
Jess, hitting your kid on the rist is a piss poor knee jerk reaction. as was said, though, and what some here are clearly missing, is that explaining to your kid why it's bad to do X, Y, or Z is constructive rather than destructive. with time, and through experiencing different things, they'll learn what they should. I don't think some realize how damaging spanking children really is, and for me, personally, that's heartbreaking.
people say, "it's just a little spank." really? okay, I'll remember that, if I'm ever around someone with that attitude who makes me mad, that justifies me hitting them instead of vocalizing my feelings, right? no, it doesn't. see how stupid that sounds, though? anyone could claim that something is justified, but if said person's feelings aren't under control, it simply isn't true.
I had a great way of learning not to touch the stove growing up. I touched the stove.
Yeah, the "kids nowadays" was said to us in the 70s and 80s then too. The truth is, it's all illusion. What was the song? The Class of 97? Where he talks about when you're old, you make believe that wne you were young, politicians were noble, prices were reasonable, and people respected their elders. Every generation is the so-called final generation, every generation is supposedly going to the dogs, and everything they complain about now about video games and things they complained about TV in the 70s, or Tales From the Crypt in the 50s.
The play is the same, they just change actors.
Thank you Cody! Personally I believe sometimes kids need to get hurt and experience something to understand that you can get hurt by touching a stove, rather than trying to keep the child from ever getting hurt. It's impossible. And the child won't die from getting burned. It's not like you are standing there, forcing the child to keep his/her hands on the scalding hot burner. You want to know how I learned what electrecution was? From sticking my fingers inside of a socket. And naturally, my body felt the pain and jerked my hand back. Finally, I never forgot that feeling and I didn't ever do it again.
Also, the reason why I say a child should experience some pain is because I was told not to do so many things or I'd get hurt, and I became overly cautious of doing many things. That's why I can see some instances where it would be good to tell the child you can get hurt, but don't be afraid of getting hurt as long as you follow the parent's instructions.
exactly right, Cody.
So since you feel that a child should experience pain in order to learn they should do it so they get the idea? so in other words, if a kid is walking and they try to run into the street you want to let the kid run into the street and let them get run over by a car? I'm sorry, but the pain thing doesn't always work, especially if the situation is one of life or death.
Of course not, and if the parent notices any deadly harm that might arise they better react to get the child out of danger. However getting burnt on the hand by a stove or shocked won't kill them.
no one is saying we'd allow a child to run in front of a car, but rather, as was said, that allowing him or her to experience hurt once in awhile, is a healthy and necessary part of life.
and, again, Jess, how does pain from a slap on the rist justify a lesson being learned? it shows the kid you're mad, and think you're more powerful than him or his needs.
It's not a hurtful slap, it's more like a tap, and taking the hand away, he certainly doesn't cry or find it painful or if e does he doesn't show it.
I hate to break it to you, but that's incredibly naive of you. as far as you know, it doesn't affect him, but maybe down the road, the more you slap him, he'll show you. it could become so bad that he'll want little or no contact with you. maybe that won't happen, but to be so naive as to say he doesn't show it, is just plain stupid.
Plus, what will you do the time you aren't there and he wants to do something? Memory of you slapping his wrist aren't going to stop him then. You're not there to slap his wrist. The fact that mommy doesn't want him to do it is not going to matter when mommy isn't there. The fact that it hurt will sotp him no matter what.
Cody, you're a very young human being; a child as some others have said in the past and I'm not going to argue with you further cos it's pointless and the more I do, the more false information you attempt to make people believe. but what I said above, for everyone else, is not bullshit.
Parents could let their kids play outside without fear of obductions etc.
Because kids got the strap at school, they respected their teachers more, so no-one can tell me that is bullshit and those who do are sadly disillusioned bigtime. Maybe go ask how grandmother or great grand-mother (as you're so young Cody) how it was in their day.
Now again I'm not saying that the respect wasn't as a result of smacking, I don't know, but again, just to repeat myself, it's a question being posed a lot lately.
Please, for the love of all things, Do your research if you want to try and sprout facts that you weren't around to see; that goes for everyone, not just the silly young Cody. Remember it's not all about books and what you read on paper.
Oh you fucking moron. Do you know how old you were when I was born RDFreak? You were fucking ten years old. And you think that allows you to know through annicdotal evidence that everybody was respectful of their elders in the earlier generations? You really are stupid aren't you?
Lets see, the only way you could logically make your asertion without reading it anywhere, which you said yourself you can't do, was to have been there. Considering the fact that you aren't even old enough to have lived through anything more damning than the iranian hostage crisis, which you were three-years-old for, and in Australia, I doubt you'd know much of anything at all. You didn't even live through the sixties. Tell me what life experience you have that allows you to make this claim? What, you think since you lived through the tail end of the disco era you can claim to know that previous generations were more respectful over my actual knowledge that your premiss is faulse?
Please, explain to us low young people who went to college for our learnin', just where do you get your information from? If you didn't get it from books, then you can't even talk about a previous generation from mine. You aren't even old enough to be my mother. Let me spell out what that means for you, since I'm willing to bet you don't get it. We're in the same god damn generation you friggin moronic twit.
seriously, I'm not even going to go through all the ways you're wrong. I don't have the time and I think I've already pointed out how full of shit you are to even make your claim. Next time you try to step to me, try doing it with some actual evidence in your hand, and know what the fuck you're talking about.
I changed my mind, I will point out one little thing, for the benefit of others. I'll discuss when you said to go ask your grandmother, or great grand mother in my case. Considering both my great grandmothers died a long time ago, I have to wonder just how old yu think I actually am.
Anyway, in history there is such thing as a primary source. this is a source that actually viewed the event and then talked about it. Soldier's diaries, the journal your grandma kept about the vietnam war, letters, newspaper articles, those are all primary sources. Now, the problem with them is rather simple to guess if you think about them and its twofold. First, no one sees the entire situation. You might read a soldier's diary and get his view of the war, but that will only be his side, it won't be the whole story. Second, they are unreliable. Your grandma is not going to tell you about how she went out and blew the neighbor boy when she was fourteen. She's going to tell you that she was well-behaved and never did anything wrong, because that's what she wants you to do.
So, asking your grandma if she respected her parents is not evidence for two reasons. One, she isn't a reliable witness anyway, and two, she's only your grandmother. Unless your grandmother was a whole lot of people, she's not statistically importan. She's just one person.
However, RDFreak also made a few other stupid claims. She said that parents can't let their children play outside for fear of kidnappings. This is also not true. Kids are no more unsafe today than they were decades ago. In fact they are safer. The rate of kidnapping in the civilized world has dropped drastically. It is now, at least in america, just over 100 children per year. The vast majority of those are taken by astranged parents, not strangers on the playground.
The reason we think we are so unsafe is that we can now easily get information. Back in ye old days of the 1980's when old granny RDFreak was a growin' up, the internet was not nearly so prevalent, and so the technology boom hadn't quite taken place yet. Now, if there is a kidnapping in Australia, I can know about it in Florida within five minutes. To those who don't pause to think about this, it seems scary. Clearly RDFreak is one of those who never pauses to think.
I agree with cody on this one.
Just recently, studies showed that there is psychological dammage experienced by a child after he or she is spanked, no matter how minor. Children are shown to distance themselves emotionally from their parents and second-guess their judgement if spanked. These same studies suggest that kids feel restricted and less willing to explore in a positive manner if physically disciplined rather than verbally taught right from wrong. there is evidence that the child's temprament takes a turn for the worse and that spanking doesn't solve anything. Neither does that tap on the rist.
Think about it, people. again, if you can just as easily take your child's hand away from the stove gently and explain to him that its' dangerous, why would you want to slap the kid's rist to get the message through to him. what does that say about you. Mommy or daddy dont' have much self-control? mommy or daddy don't have patience with me? mommy or daddy keep me safe with some form of physical force therefore it's ok to do the same in the future...
I am actually a fan of the kid getting slightly hurt in a controlled environment. of course you aren't going to let your kid turn on the gas burner so it will blow up in his face, but you cant' stop every little booboo from happening. what makes you think that you exerting physical force on the kid will do him more good than an exploratory shock or a mild burn of a finger.
If he hurts his hand on the stove after I've gently taken him away from it numerous times and told him he shouldnt' do that, he'll remember. Ouch. Mommy said I shouldnt' do that, guess she was right. If I slap his rist and gruffly take him away from the harmful situation with out a patient explaanation, he'll just remember , like cody said, that mommy didn't' want me to do that but who cares? mommy's not here. She said I'd get hurt but she slapped me on the rist and that hurt a little. I'll bet that stove isnt' much to worry about. I'll just keep playing near it and make sure mommy doesn't see me do it.
Get the difference between the two?
In the first instance, I exercise my authority over my child as a trusted figure, as someone who can be trusted, someone who wants to be a teacher not a forceful caretaker. Eventually, if my kid burns his finger on the stove slightly, he'll realize I'm worth trusting, that what I have to teach him is worth while rather than fearing my response to his wrongdoing. Perhaps his logic wont' be nearly as profound at such a young age as I've described, but somewhere in his mind, it will be ingrained in him to trust me rather than fear me. I can accomplish more with a trusting child than one who abides by my rules because of fear.
Get it?
***** to the last poster :)
thank you, Cody and Bernadetta. very well put.
to illustrate their points further, though, here are a few stories from my life. since spanking is the subject at hand, that's where I'll start.
as a kid, I was spanked for more things than I can say, mostly for...you guessed it, being a kid.
when I cried and cried, I was told to stop crying, , or I'd keep getting spanked. did I listen? no, cause I was hurt by people I should've been able to trust, not to mention the verbal abuse that went on, in addition to the physical abuse.
I know I said I'd share more, but my point has been made.
What more can be said? Except I was born in 1970 and while things do change, yes, young people are generally more disrespectful than their elders would wish, and elders often imagine they were better behaved than the young now are. We see this at workplaces also, where the young idealistic 20-somethings often make some bad judgment calls, and for us who have been around awhile, if we don't exercise a bit of self-control, we're likely to claim that we weren't so idealistic, impulsive, and a zillion other things when we were your age. Idealistic and impulsive including things like imagining the world was a better place at some point. It takes self-control to not do that and remember that we were all of those things, just because we didn't text, have video games, or the Internet. Today's young people get flack for the Internet and video games like our generation got flack for TV and the video stores.
Down where I grew up it was common to get spanked. So common my friends and I would talk about what we did and of course it ending in a spanking. At the time all we knew was just not to do it again. Plain as simple. When I was spanked it was once and once spoke it all to me. My dad didn't use the buckle on me when I was young, just the belt itself. I can see why you guys wouldn't hit your children, I doubt I could hit mine if I ever had any. But I'm just pointing out something, not everyone is the same. Not everyone has gotten psychological problems because of it. Hell I don't even think about those times of the spankings.
it isn't something I think about much, unless it comes up somehow, whether through conversation, or through watching kids be slapped. if I ever have kids, I sure as hell won't ever slap them.
I wonder how many of you are actually parents?
I am a parent. What's the difference?
Are you saying that you change your mind about spanking and discipline once you are a parent? I haven't. I think it's important to not discipline in a pinch, but rather to put some thought into how to make a punishment teachable and productive instead of impulsive and upsetting, but I know many parents who ride by the seat of their pants so to speak.
exactly right, Bernadetta. the idea that if someone isn't a parent, they don't know what they're talking about, is obserd. our personal experiences are what shape who we are, whether we're parents or not. also, as I've said before, we're able to decide these sorts of things based on how we were raised.
We are all kidless, just as we are all at one point in our lives a virgin.
Firstly, saying that kids were more respectful back in the day is bullshit, plain and simple.
Most people i've heard talk about their experiences as a kid dealing with those that used corporal punishment didn't really demonstrate they had respect for the one punishing at all. I've heard many people say things like "Well, my dad was fucked in the head, and that's no lie, but I made sure he didn't catch me doing anything he didn't like, because he had a strong arm, and a belt..." I don't think corporal punishment teaches anything more than as a parent i'd rather not really teach you a lesson that you'll remember and understand, but I can beat the hell out of you, and maybe you'll remember that I don't like you doing this, even if you don't understand why."
I think it takes less work for a parent to spank a child, its easy for them, because they don't really have to think threw their actions.
Its mentally weak, and only proves one thing, that stronger people can beat the hell out of weaker people when they're angry.
I remember telling my adoptive father "Wow, you've got a lot of balls and very high morals for hitting me when angry. You're bigger and stronger, but what does that prove? Only that you can take out your anger on me, not that you can educate."
guess what, the violence stopped...
There you go. finally a post that puts it so concisely, I in a way I wasnt' able to do. that's exactly correct.
And to further the statement, I'd like to point out aht spanking still is acceptable in families and cultures that, perhaps, arent' as far along in being educated and civilized as others. Nuff said.
I grew up being spanked, but I don't remember most of the spankings or the reasons behind them. I don't hate either of my parents for spanking me, but I do think that some of the reasons why they spanked me or my siblings were a bit trivial. I also think a lecture would have done the trick.
The spankings I do remember, I recall just sitting there crying afterward. I did not reflect upon what I had done wrong, but I thought about how mean my dad was.
At one time, my mother advanced to punching me and my siblings in the backs, and we were 3, 4, and 7. Fortunately we were taken away from her.
My dad never did that, but sometimes he would threaten us with a metal baseball bat, or the poker for the fireplace. I'm not sure if that was much better than what my mom had done. I mean, I knew my dad would never hit us with those things, but at the time, I also thought he was a jack ass.
I don't think spanking is a good form of discipline, but I can't say I reject the practice 100%. I have spanked one of my nephews before. He was somewhere between 4 and 6, and he was being a fucking idiot. I was playing a game with my brother and sister, and some of his siblings, and he kept swiping pieces of the game off the table and going around and poking people. He was old enough to understand "Stop," and "You're messing up the game," and "You're doing things that people don't like." He just laughed and continued to be a prick, so I figured he was bored. I told my brother to take my turns for me, and I went to play Legos with the kid. No, he did not want to do that, he wanted to continue being an asshole, so I spanked him. I swatted him on the butt four times with my hand, and I don't regret it. He stopped being bothersome, and found something else to do.
By no means do I think what I did was abusive. I think I simply showed my nephew that I refused to put up with his bullshit. You're not going to act like a dick and get away with it, sorry.
Right. A six year old was being an ass hole, a prick, and idiot, a dick... I'm sorry; I don't know you and I don't often extend such judgment to people I don't know at all, but I sincerely hope you dont' plan on having any kids. Ever. Please. do yourself and the prospective kid a favor and don't. Because everything about your last post just confirms that you have no idea what's ok and what's not ok regarding children. Oh and, don't go spanking other people's kids. If I were your sibling and you touched my kid in a manner suggesting any kind of violence, for being a "dick" as you say, I'd have taken a belt to your own backside and smacked it raw. I don't advocate spanking, but when someone is clueless and oversteps his or her boundaries, and eye for an eye is fine by me.
right on, to Bernadetta's last post.
I know raven, she doesn't plan on having kids.
I do have to agree with the last part though. If I had a kid and someone else spanked them, I would go off on them. No one hits my kids. I would consider that assault and act accordingly.
as would I.
I grew up in fear of the belt as well. While I don't remember exactly why i was hit a lot of the times I was, I do remember that if I cried, it only made my dad smack me harder. So I quickly learned that burying emotions was the right thing to do, which was later confirmed in other situations that i've gone through in my life. Most times, I feel like a failure, even at that, because why else would I be talking about this right now? On the other hand, I always tell others they're not perfect when they make mistakes, and if there's one thing I hate, it's hypocrisy. So, I guess I grant myself a little credit where that's concerned, knowing I can't be perfect, either.
Anyway, the only reason I bring that up is because there was a post awhile back that really hit home with me. It was the one from Write Away, when she talked about how kids who are spanked sometimes distance themselves emotionally from their parents. Now, I won't blame that completely on being hit, but I do think that cemented some of my more avoidant traits in me.
My boyfriend and I have had a lot of in-depth conversations about this subject, since he grew up in much the same way. He told me that when he was little, if his mom wanted to give him the belt, she had to work for it. He would grab it out of her hand, or make valiant attempts to, just to delay the inevitable. What bothers me about that is that most people would consider him a troublemaker, and fucked up for doing this, but he was a hell of a lot braver than I was, lol. I never dared try that. But the common thread between our experiences, despite coming from completely different backgrounds, and also from what I've read of the experiences of others on this thread, is that nothing about getting spanked was effective. While I'm thinking of it, an equally uneffective punishment is having your mouth washed out with soap. Believe me, all it made me do was throw up, and I simply didn't talk too loud, or cry, or let a curse word slip when my parents were around. I seriously cannot smell a bar of Ivory soap even to this day without my stomach turning.
No, I will not reproduce or raise children, unless something disastrous happens to one of my siblings.
Also, my sister and brother-n-law spank their children, so obviously they don't consider it abuse or assault.
That is the only time I ever took it upon myself to discipline a child. I had no qualms about it because he was my nephew, and I disciplined him with a method used by his parents.
do his parents also call him an Idiot and a dick? if so, then a desasterous thing has already happened, but you shouldn't take over raising the kids. Send them somewhere where if they misbehave, someone will figure out why they're misbehaving and then punish them accordingly, instead of chocking it up to being a pain in the ass and then resorting to physical punishment. Just my thought.
I would never call any of my nieces or nephews anything of the sort to their faces. I didn't say that I called my nephew anything. I was just describing how he was acting and what he was acting like.
Also, just because you and some others on this board believe spanking is wrong does not mean it is wrong to everyone everywhere at all times. My siblings and I grew up in a community where spanking was acceptable, and none of us reject the practice. If my sister did not spank her children, I would have never done it myself.
Also, no one else was dealing with the child, so I took it upon myself.
I admit I am not the motherly type when it comes to children. I have low tolerance for people in general, and even less when it comes to teacup people.
I had addressed that in a previous post: Spanking is indeed tollerated, practiced and believed in within some families and cultures. I grew up in one of those so I am aware. And I also pointed out that these families or cultures believe its ok to spank children because they dont' seem to know any better. Not trying to insult anyone without reason, just pointing out the obvious. This is one of those things that: just because an entire group of people believes something is acceptible doesn't make it right. Actual facts back up my oppinion in this matter.
And just because you didnt' say any of that stuff to the kid doesnt' mean he didn't sense that it's what you thought. I wonder if people ever think to recognize that most kids act up because a: They're personality is mischievous. B: Because their families dont' give them enough positive attention. Or C. Because they weren't taught any better.
Again, I'm not saying any of this purely because I want to be a bitch, I'm just attempting to bring forth some thought and understanding on the behalf of the people who can't articulate for themselves: little kids who meet people with your disposition toward them.
You dont' have to like kids: it's good that you know you don't. But in that case, don't interact with them and if you must, try to set your own feelings about them aside for their sake. I say this because, presumably you are the adult in the situation.
very well said, Bernadetta. I'll add that it doesn't matter, Raven, that it was your nephew you spanked. the fact you spanked someone who isn't your kid, is what some of us take major issue with.
also, as Bernadetta accurately pointed out, how can you be sure your nephew didn't know how you were feeling? just cause you apparently didn't call him these names to his face, doesn't mean he couldn't gauge that you were pissed off/annoyed at him.
all I can say, is, I'm glad you've decided not to have kids. based on some of the views you uphold, that sounds like a wise decision for yourself as well as the rest of the world.
as was also said, just cause someone else does something, doesn't make it right. I think that's a piss poor argument, to be honest.
Something else I just thought of, my dad was always the stricter disciplinarian in my family. My mom was more the disappointed-parent type, in fact she wouldn't even speak to me if I'd done something wrong. Her disapproval hung over me like a heavy storm cloud, which would either dissipate within a few days, or the storm would break if my dad took over the discipline. But one incident does stick out in my mind between my mom and I. I can't remember what it was that made me so angry, or what I was trying to explain to her that just wasn't getting through, but finally I snapped and pushed her. I was probably about 7 at the time, and it wasn't really a hard push, because I knew even then that I didn't intend to hurt her. It was just enough to make her stumble a few steps. She got quiet, and then turned around and gave me a good smack on the butt with her hand. She had never done that, with her hand or anything else, before, so I did get the message that what I had done was wrong. In that instance, and that one alone, I feel that she had at least part of the right idea. I did something physical to her, so she did something back and showed me it wasn't right. I never thought about doing that again, and not because of any perceived threat of further pain, but because, despite how young I was, I truly felt that if I continued down that path, my life would be over before it began. I didn't think of it in those terms, really, it was just a feeling I had that said as much to my heart.
so are you suggesting that, if a kid bites you for instance, you should bite him or her back to show him or her how it feels?
Bernadetta, I never expressed that my nephew did not know how I felt. I'm pretty positive he knew I and others thought he was being annoying because out of the six people playing the game, 4 of them, including me, verbally expressed that he was being bothersome.
Also, I know that I am not the most sensitive woman, but whether I like it or not, it is my duty as an aunt to help my sister care for her children when she asks it of me verbally, or when she leaves them in my presence. I have been an aunt since I was 7 or 8, and ever since my nieces and nephews were able to crawl around and get into things, I have been allowed to discipline them using the same methods as their parents. If any of my nieces and nephews misbehave in my presence, I will deal and always have dealt with it swiftly. My nieces and nephews understand that if they act up around me, they will get no sympathy from me, and their actions will have consequences. I have only spanked a child once, and I feel that it was reasonable in that particular situation.
Chelsea, I did not argue that spanking is right just because a group of people believes it is and practices it. What I intended to convey was that the use of spanking as discipline is subjective, as is the use of any form of punishment.
Write Away, no, I don't think that. I have no plans to have children anyway, but if I did, I wouldn't use any form of physical force on them. I wouldn't have the heart to do it, even if I wanted to, which I doubt I would. I was pointing out that in my particular situation, it worked. Was there another way my mom could have gone about it? Sure, probably. but it's obvious that neither of my parents are very enlightened. I could tell you lots more stories that are way worse to prove this, but I won't. My point is, I got the message loud and clear. If my mom had just retreated into silence as she normally would have, I probably would have grown up to be violent myself.
I have a daughter. I've popped her on the butt, but usually for severe situations and only after I had tried evrything else to get the point across. I don't think spanking is the answer to everything, in fact, I talk to chloe and explain things to her as best as I can. She was going through a distructive faze. It was because of bordom, so I got her a d.s to give her more to do, she's mellowed out sme. I was spanked growing up and sometimes a lot worse. It didn't make me feel good, so I try and be as calm and try to talk to Chloe more than anything else. People say I'm too soft with her, but I don't like it when she feels angry and upset because she feels misunderstood. a while back, even though I do everything I can to make her feel cared about and loved, she told me she felt no one cared about her. My roommate is alwas mad at her and he and I have gone rounds because I don't agree with some of his beliefs where children are concerned. I have made it my mission to give Chloe alternative ways to get through the bordom and what not, ways that she can relate to and that are fun. I love her very much and though people may think I am too soft with her, or explain things to much instead of just saying because I said so or something else, it's how I do things, and Chloe and I are closer than ever. She feels so comfortible with me, that we sit together at night and talk or I'll read to her. She's just four, but I'll tell you something, I've had some of the best conversations with her. She's even gone so far in some of our conversations as to grasp what I'm explaining so well, whether it be who she shouldn't hang out with, or why she shouldn't do something, that she's actually been thankful I could explain in a way she can understand. My favoirite part is the round of hugs and kisses afterword. smiles.
Well some times i spank my daughter only when it is necessary.
I do so.
But that is my oponions
Spanking a child does not send any kind of lasting or productive message, is a loss of control and an expression of frustration on the parent's part, and is an inferior method of discipline to explanations and/or disapproval Fear does not equal respect. . The end.
Yep. One of the reason I don't mis my father.
I like what post 78 said. It's ironic, because my parents always said how we (the kids) had to show the parents respect, but it was rare, if they ever said it at all, that they would show us the respect in return. Have any of you ever heard that from your parents as well? "You will show me respect, or you will be punished."
Yeah, I got that from my parents a lot. They also liked to use the fact that "honor thy father and mother" is one of the ten commandments, so I'd better do that or I would go to hell.
Yeah, I've heard my mother say to me: don't let anyone hit you, yet everytime she'd spank me and get on top of me and pull my hair she'd say: but since I gave birth to you, I could do whatever I want to you; I can even kill you if I wanted to...
Absolutely disgusting.
Yup, I'm glad I am not with her anymore
I can't believe I'm agreeing with Dolce, here, but I was told similar things, by the woman who gave birth to me.
it's all right Chelsea you don't always have to agree... but I don't believe that love is a majical thing when it comes to parents, you learn to love your kids, and, just because she gave birth to you or me doesn't automaticly entitle her to our love, because it was her choice. It does not give the right to do what they wanted to us, because noone owns you...
Wow dolce, I deeply disagree with most of your last post. the last part is right on, but seriously, a parent, most especially a mother, has only one choice. whether to raise her child or to give it to someone else who can raise it better than she can. Same goes for the fathers, but I'm talking within context right now.
Anyway, you don't learn to love your child. If your a normal mother, you naturally bond with your child in your womb. that's the majority of people. if you don't, you at least have the decency to give the kid up for adoption. If you neither love the child nor give it up for someone else to love, your a monster of epic proportions.
Most parents, the normal, healthy ones, are not monsters. they love their kids.
I didn't plan on having my child. I didn't even think I wanted one before I was pregnant, as I've stated many times on these boards. But I love him. I couldn't help but love him. How could you not love your own flesh and blood, a helpless baby you carry within your own body for the better part of a year? the emotionally charged part of me cannot possibly fathom that.
I can't fathom how a person can not simply love a baby, for its vulnerability, for its innoscence if nothing else. That, to me is unfathomable. Call me irrational, call me naive. I just can't rap my head around those who treat their children with cold indifference, who can't seem to love them, but keep them and attempt to care for them anyway.
Love is crucial to a child's upbringing. it is nurturing and confidence-building. If you cant' give that to your kid as a parent, you seriously suck. sorry but it's true. You might as well starve the kid too if your going to deprive it of love.
some people just aren't fit to be parents, Bernadetta. that's the only explanation I can give. they're also too involved in their drug habits or screwing whatever guy they find for the week, to take time out for the kid they created. sad, sure, but it isn't something I allow myself to hurt over, anymore.
Yes this is true.
Of course in a perfect world, all mothers will love their kids but it's not always that black and white sadly.
I don't think that's necessarily true, "mothers cant learn to love their children". Just like children can learn to love there parents. I've seen it for myself.
You sure know what I meant, jodeci... love is not magical, you learn to love a person with time, even your parents or kids. Just because a woman was nocked up and got pregnant doesn't mean she'll magicly love her child, especially if young and not ready. Even those who are married or the couples that planned having a child, because for one thing, there's no instruction book that'll tell you how to raise your child; so noone really knows what they've got in store for them. Yeah babies are cute, but they'll grow, make mistakes, do good things and they're a heck of a lot of work. And some parents don't get that, they don't and thus get frustrated and let it out to their child in many aspects, weather psychologicly verbally or physically. A parent is poddy training his/her child, and after a few times of accidents he/she gets spanked because mom or dad has showed the child how to go to the toilet. Not every child has learning levil of mom/dad's expectations, for some it takes more time than others. And well mom/dad got frustrated and spanked the 3 year old. Or a7 year old spills his milk on the flor, and instead of making him clean it up, mom decides to do it, and spanks the child because he did a bad thing by spilling it? Or you are not a good boy, or respect your mom because she gave birth to you? How rewarding! Spanking teachis nothing, nothing whatsoever except that I'm frustrated and Hitting you is easier for me to teach you how you'll get hurt! If spanking hurts the parent more than the child, why do it? I don't think so
yes, I really do feel that you can learn to love; whether its a mother to a child, or a child to a mother. I know most women when given a baby are just drawn loved with the child. But not every woman possesses those types of feelings, sometimes they stay that way or they start to love there children. Men do it do they not?
I disagree. you can't teach someone something who's unwilling to learn, nor can a parent magically fall in love with his or her child just cause it exists.
Right. The key word here is can. Not all of them do, but you can't say that every parent that screws up in the beginning is a lost cause. That's equating to saying that all parents that screw up in the beginning will find hope.
Exactly Ryan. Let me say this, My biological mother was and still is the needy men type. Though since I was 15 she's truly tried to be in my life. It is my choice now to forgive and attempt to love her. I hated her all my life for letting me and my sibblings off with my father. But I do feel my biological mother has some sort of love for me. It happened, she learned to love and give a damn about me.
to each their own. I choose to no longer convince myself of something I know is untrue. it isn't healthy, for me, the person I may end up with, or any future children I may have.
It may not be true in your case, but not everyone has a bad situation. Nor does everyone just see it and go, oh forget it I don't think its worth putting my time into it. My heart has always lied with my family no matter the fucking crazy things they do or say, did I mention preach? I still love them, my biological mother because she has came back and tried.
Right, Jodeci, not all situations are alike, and, not everyone will react the same to similar situations. Maybe I put out my example, but I don't refer to myself as doing the right thing for you, because,, everyone is different and you've done what's right for you. So, *****